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Q & A with Union County
Superintendent Powell
Educator stands by vision for kids
By Carrie Dillard
Advocate editor
Josh Powell is nearing the end of his first full school year as
Superintendent of Union County Public Schools. When he was hired in
April 2008, he knew to lead the 161st ranked district into the top 10
percent of Kentucky schools would take an aggressive change. His push
for excellence has been a driving force in education, but it has not
been made without ever-growing community concerns—questions if such
driven change is what we need. Here Powell sits down with me to answer
those tough questions about Formative Assessment, exiting teachers and
his vision for the road ahead.
Reporter: This district has implemented CATS-like test scrimmages in all
the schools to assess how students might score come spring. Correct?
Powell: “Yes. Formative Assessment.”
Reporter: Do you believe that the district’s CATS scores will
significantly improve this spring?
Powell: “Whole-heartedly.”
Reporter: We’ve seen healthy competition between some of your elementary
schools especially. Each individual school has its own CATS score, but a
district score shows more about of the overall picture. Do you think all
the schools are working as a team to raise the district’s score?
Powell: “Well, our elementary schools work closer together because they
are all three elementary schools. So each level is different.
Competition is healthy, and with that competition, they get together,
make silly challenges to each other, and with healthy competition comes
growth for everybody. We all want each school to succeed.
Yesterday, I was at Sturgis Elementary to compliment them on
(achievements they’ve made recently) and then I compliment the growth at
the high school at Sturgis Elementary, and the teachers applauded more
for the success at the high school than they did for themselves that
day. So we’re all in it together.
They realize that there is some competitions among schools but they all
realize they are on the same team. That part has been really good this
year.”
Reporter: Are you more concerned with seeing that overall district score
improve?
Powell: “I want every single school to be a top 10 school. We have the
potential for that. But I also want to be clear, there have been times
when I only talked about certain schools having success. That’s because
that was the truth, and you can’t say that all of our schools are making
significant progress when they are not. And I am happy to be able to say
now that all schools are making significant progress.”
Reporter: Newly unveiled this year was the Department of Student
Achievement, along with the addition of five new Curriculum Specialists
and two Response to Intervention (RTI) Specialists. What role are these
Curriculum Specialists playing in achieving those educational goals?
Powell: “They are some of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. They
are all about curriculum, instruction, training. They work much more
days than they are actually paid for, and they are all committed to
excellence. They want our district to succeed, to be a model for
Kentucky. And interestingly, every single one of them but one were
in-house people.”
Reporter: How many Curriculum Specialists are at each school?
Powell: “Well, it varies. They are district employees, so we (move) them
all the time. Sometimes there will be two at one school, and one
part-time at another. Since they are district employees, we reserve the
right to position them wherever their skills and talents are needed.”
Reporter: You mentioned that their purpose was curriculum, instruction
and training. Can you explain that a little more?
Powell: “Their whole job description is to help and support teachers.
That’s it. So, for example, if there is a teacher not performing very
well as evident by their Formative Assessments, they will go see that
teacher to find out what the issues are and provide resources, whether
direct services or indirect services, that will benefit their kids and
improve student achievement.
And sometimes with teachers, it’s just something small. It doesn’t mean
that the teacher is inadequate; it just means the teacher might need a
figurative inch to reach their goals, that makes a dramatic impact.”
Reporter: Change is never easy. At the very least, change is new. Do you
feel you and the Curriculum Specialists have provided adequate and clear
instructions to teachers and staff how to implement those changes?
Powell: “We have, but you have to understand that the Department of
Student Achievement is a newly formed organization, and they have had to
have a lot of training. We have provided adequate instruction, although
sometimes it is not well received. Everybody wants change until you
start changing things. There is resistance.”
“We are tweaking the process as we go based on our Formative
Assessments," noted Malinda Beauchamp, director of Public Relations.
"While teachers might say it’s confusing, or we are changing it often,
because that is the whole intent of it, to take the Formative
Assessments each week and make changes to guide us through the school
year to make improvements along the way.”
Powell: “The major change is accountability. Historically, this district
has not been held accountable. Period. The major change is
accountability. We are going to hold you accountable for not doing your
job and meeting (state) standards.”
Reporter: Many changes have occurred at the middle school. The school
entered Tier 5 status after failing to meet state standards of
achievement.
Powell: “The district is Tier 3. The middle school is Tier 5. That is
the worst designation that a school can have in the nation, according to
No Child Left Behind. It means that we are failing our kids, plain and
simple. We are failing our minorities; we are failing our Special Ed
kids there in particular. But when looking at the data, we were failing
all kids. And, simply put, what we were doing was not working.”
Reporter: How has restructuring the middle school benefited students?
Teachers?
Powell: “The first one is discipline. We had, according to John Shofner,
the resource officer, two to three discipline cases per week--discipline
cases that get sent to the police officer. We have had one since the
restructure. That was two months ago.
The middle school was run like a high school. You had sixth graders in
with eighth graders in P.E. You had all kids released at (the bell) one
time with no supervision whatsoever. One of the major changes we
implemented was supervision at all times. These are still kids and kids
have to have supervision at all times. It is a very basic and essential
feature that a middle school has to have.
The other one was we had to make sure teachers were teaching subjects
they were certified in according to the law. We had to change things to
meet legal requirements. A lot of teachers have received this very well.
Did all teachers like the changes? No. But many teachers like it.
Interestingly, (a group of) teachers came in on their days off during
Christmas break along with the Curriculum Specialists and principal to
make those changes. To be honest, I didn’t have much to do with it. It
all went through the Site-Based Council.”
Reporter: Ultimately, do you believe these changes will lead UCMS out of
Tier 5 status?
Powell: “Absolutely. It will take two years of meeting all our goals and
objectives. But again, our standards are not that we just want to get
out of trouble. Our standards are that we want to be the best—to be
among Kentucky’s best public schools.”
Reporter: A meeting was held at the high school last week about the
possibility of implementing a trimester schedule. Is that still just a
possibility?
Powell: “The law states the Superintendent is not the decision maker in
scheduling, curriculum, instruction. The school board is not the
decision maker either. That is solely the Site-Based Decision Making
Council. I’m neither for or against it, but I believe that any system
you put in if you have accountability, it will work. A trimester
schedule will work. A typical two-semester schedule will work.
I believe in the high school staff. You have to understand that when I
change things, they just don’t come to me off the top off my head. I
have lots of resources in the state to make sure that we are using
researched-based strategies as well as best practices in education.”
Reporter: Can you give me examples of other resources you have used?
Powell: “The Kentucky Association of School Councils—they train
Site-Based Councils. They are key players in Kentucky. They come to our
district once a month for evaluations. They are very frank with me about
our progress.
Formative Assessment is to be used as an indicator. The whole purpose is
to show where we are now and let’s use this as a tool and as a guide to
help us get better. It is a resource for teachers. Formative Assessment
isn’t a “gotcha” tool. It’s a thing where administration can delegate
resources. We have a great record of doing that this year. When are
science scores are low, we change things. We change things to better our
kids. That’s what Formative Assessment is for.”
Reporter: One of the biggest complaints in years past about education in
Union County has been lack of communication and openness between parents
and taxpayers and the school district. How do you think you have
addressed that by communicating long-term goals and opportunities to
students, teachers and community?
Powell: “We are building a foundation. With that we have a goal of being
a high-performing district and having a high-performing school at every
level. Taxpayers were concerned the first day that I got here. They were
concerned by the lack of success of our school district. We were 161 out
of 175.
As far as communication, we try to communicate what we legally can. A
lot of people want to be involved in personnel (issues). School boards
can’t be involved with personnel—it’s the law. The community can’t be
involved with personnel.
There are a lot of good teachers here, they’re incredible and I’d put
them up against anyone in the nation. We will have success. I know it,
the Kentucky Association of School Councils knows it, the Department of
Student Achievement and many, many teachers here know that. We are
changing and improving.
There is a changing of the norms here. Performance dictates everything.
It is like a business. You can’t argue with performance. And some people
don’t like that. They’ve been catered to in the past. It’s a very small
percentage of our staff, and they speak to the squeaky wheel. I resist
that. I walked into a lot of very unique adult issues here. You stand
up. You stand up against things that are wrong and do something about
it. You think I’ll be respected for that, but often times the opposite
happens.”
Reporter: What rewards or motivational tools have you provided the
staff?
Powell: “We cater to the best and brightest. If you are about kids, we
make our investments with you. There is not performance pay, although I
think there should be. Right now, I’m trying to make more human
investments with people—making people who are doing an extraordinary job
(know it). They are changing a whole community, whole society, and will
probably be the model for the rest of the state in what they are doing
here. I’m trying to make sure they know how important they are. They
probably don’t realize it, but we are making a lot of noise right now in
the state in a good way. People are talking about Union County
everywhere.”
Reporter: I know you have stated that you are moving teachers where it
is best for kids, getting those teachers in areas where they are
certified to be. Specifically, there were five teacher transfers between
schools during Christmas break and I know it is not documented (for the
public) when they take on an extra class or duty at their own school. In
a transfer, there is going to be an amount of the upheaval and confusion
for both teachers and students. Do you think the benefits outweigh the
negatives for that teacher and for the students?
Powell: “If there is an amount of upheaval for teachers, and it affects
those kids, then they are no teacher. I’ve been a teacher too. Whatever
bad happens to you, it’s unacceptable; it’s unprofessional; it’s conduct
unbecoming of a professional if you let it affect kids, if you bring
your adult issues (into the student world).
I know that when you transfer people, there is stress and there is
upheaval so I have to weigh that with the benefit it would provide. I’ve
never second-guessed myself on any transfer I have made because the
benefits have greatly outweighed any distraction there might be. Some of
(the transfers) have been to adhere to the law. If you have a math
teacher, certified in math, who is teaching something they are not
certified in, and you can’t find a certified math teacher, (it make
sense) to put that certified math teacher in that spot. Those are the
types of things we have had to fix.
90 percent of what I’m changing here is accountability. People are being
held accountable for the first time. I work for those good teachers who
want the best for kids in every single class. Unfortunately, there is
some personnel management involved there. But what organization of 500
people exists that doesn’t require personnel management with transfers,
or terminations, or resignations.”
Reporter: Do you feel you and your school administrators have conducted
these changes, like teacher transfers, school restructuring, etc., with
the utmost respect and integrity toward staff?
Powell: “Yes, we have. We have to do what’s right even though it doesn’t
make everybody happy. I don’t know specifically what’s been said, but
school districts are governed by very specific laws, is overseen by both
the Kentucky Department of Education and carefully scrutinized by the
teacher’s union in this district, so we have to go by the book.”
Reporter: Do you feel the community is supportive of the changes?
Powell: “Everybody is supportive of changes until it affects somebody
they know. This is a very small community. If one person everyone knows
and is connected to is transferred or has resigned, people become upset
and they start questioning change. Everyone wants change until you do
it. But there has been a strong group of supporters out there who are
committed to excellence and know what it takes to get there. Even when
we become the flag-bearers for the rest of Kentucky, I’m still not going
to be popular. I don’t like that. This is a place I want to stay for a
long time. My kids are going to go to school here. My wife shops here.
It’s hurtful sometimes when I’m simply trying to do what is right and
best for kids. Regardless, I’m committed to see this through. I am (not
leaving). My reward will be knowing I can play a major role in improving
a community, improving the lives of kids, creating a school district
that has great successes, where there aren’t 22 percent of kids in
remedial classes starting college, that is going to be the reward in it
for me.
I’m am smart enough to know that some changes you make will make people
mad but I’m sharp enough to know they are necessary. We can’t wait.
These kids are in critical stages of their development and every day
they lose, they may not have it back.”
Reporter: What changes have occurred in Special Education?
Powell: “Our Special Education students score amongst the lowest in the
state of Kentucky, so there are obvious changes that have to be made for
greater expectations for our children. I have a Special Education
background. I think there should be more mainstreaming, more exposure to
content.
In the past, when a child was diagnosed with a disability, and there are
lots different disabilities, they were put in one room, a resource room,
and given work that was not up to their grade level. Everyone was
treated the same. Now, with changes in the law, you must give these
students grade equivalent work. So, if a person has a specific learning
disability in the area of reading, that does not make their IQ low, it
just means they have a reading disability. So, for example, if that
student is taking a test in chemistry, all he needs is a reader. For the
first time, we are employing some research-based strategies and
appropriate modifications so that they may succeed. Other districts in
Kentucky are doing a very nice job of this.”
Reporter: Have you looked at some of those other districts and modeled
these changes after them?
Powell: “Well, yes, and my former district was one of them. Hancock
County Public Schools is another. They are the sixth highest ranked
district in the state of Kentucky. This is only a new concept in Union
County.”
Reporter: Mainstreaming. How will that benefit those students?
Powell: “They will be involved with other kids socially; they will get
the same content. And another reason, Special Ed students need more
intense training under certified teachers, like in math for instance,
but it is not 100 percent mainstreaming in this district. (So, a Special
Ed student will receive the same content and certified instruction as
other students plus individual instruction by Special Education teachers
during a study skills period if needed.)”
Reporter: How do Open Response Questions (ORQs) improve overall
education in our district?
Powell: “They improve overall education (everywhere). So many times we
want to use norm-reference tests that are all about multiple choice. We
want to teach all these the subjects and then assess by using multiple
choice.
My senior year in high school, during test time in advanced math, I
would burn through multiple choice, but then we would have to do Open
Responses, actually apply it to the real world, organize it into logical
thought, and I was lost. I was lost and I hated it. I knew how to do
math, I knew how to memorize a formula, but in the real world what does
memorizing that formula do for you? The whole purpose of math is to
enhance your ability to solve problems, not to memorize formulas. When
you use Open Response with math, not only do you have to know the math,
you have to use your critical thinking and writing skills—a skill that
is very needed in our society-- critical thinkers.
We look at CATS and we criticize it greatly. I know the Senate is trying
to remove some writing portfolios and Open Response Questions. I don’t
know what that is saying (about our state). The only difference between
us and other states that are much higher ranked are our expectations and
we should improve our expectations.
We have to do a better job with our public education, especially during
our current economic times. We are approaching 2014. We have made a goal
that every child be proficient (in CATS) by 2014. I don’t know what this
says about us as Kentuckians, that now when times are tough, we want to
decrease our standards. I would think you would increase your
standards.”
Reporter: ORQ scores provide the collective data so you can show to the
board, administrators, teachers and community about the improvements in
test scores. How long will we implement ORQ Thursdays?
Powell: “Sometimes people say we are teaching to the test. And when you
are teaching to an ability-derived test, it is inappropriate because you
are memorizing answers. When you are teaching the test in a
criterion-reference test, not only is it very appropriate, it is very
time consuming. You can’t just do that in one day. It’s what we do now
versus what we did. We are no longer doing crossword puzzles (in
classrooms); we are not doing fill-in-the-blanks; we are not doing
chapter summaries, because kids do not learn at high levels by doing
this. We are assessing through Open Response and multiple choice
questions. People say we are teaching the test. We are assessing what
our kids know. This is how we are doing it. As long as teachers see this
as two separate things, they are not viewing it correctly.
Their multiple choice and Open Response Questions are the equivalent of
chapter test and essay questions. It’s the same thing. It just makes us
teach what we are supposed to teach-- Core Content. Core Content in
Kentucky defines programs of studies, i.e. science. That way you get a
broad foundation of science and every other subject as Kentucky defines
it."
Reporter: You just said that these new ways can be time-consuming. On
average, how
many hours, more than normal, are teachers working at nights and on
weekends to get preparations and paperwork done?
Powell: "To be honest, they are not getting it if they are (working
excessive hours). If teachers are not letting go of the old stuff and
they are trying to do both...and I’ve tried in every way I could to get
teachers to let go of old methods that are ineffective. I strongly
encourage them to use their planning time as you are supposed to.
Teachers are allowed an hour of planning time everyday, and they should
be using that time to prepare. They have curriculum maps; they have
computer technology available that was in place before I got here.
Our Curriculum Specialists (work extra hours, nights and weekends)
because they are just starting. They have to, but they knew that going
into the job. It is appropriate for them."
Reporter: Just to clarify the point you just made, if teachers are
taking on the new approach and letting go of old ways, old habits, then
you feel the Curriculum Specialists and administration have provide
enough support and resources to get that work done?
Powell: "We are there on call. Some Curriculum Specialists have been
refused by teachers. They are not there to evaluate nor have they ever
been. On the other hand, there are some teachers who realize they are an
invaluable resource and want them in their school at all times.
Understand that these new methods aren’t new. These aren't Josh Powell’s
ideas—Open Response, Core Content, Program of Studies, Formative
Assessment. Formative Assessment is not new. It is implemented in a lot
of successful districts throughout Kentucky.
What I would like to see, I’d give anything to see teachers work their
day, to go home, enjoy their families, make those psychological
investments because I also know, if you run a school like business,
businesses realize that when workers are happy at home on nights and
weekends they come to school as more productive employees. And I’m not
going to apologize for the expectations I have because I think my demand
for excellence mirrors the community demands."
Reporter: So far this school year, there have been 23 resignations and
four retirements. What do you think when you see the number of teachers
leaving this district?
Powell: "I stated before I started that there would be high turn over in
the first year. There was high turn over the previous year, and the year
before that. We will probably equal those years. Not every single person
who has resigned or left is bad. Some have resigned for (other) personal
reasons. On the same token, there is an overwhelming amount of interest
to be employed here next year. I’ve had applications from both
administrators and teachers all year long. Many of those people live in
Union County that are driving other places to work. It’s on par with
previous years, but I’m not afraid of turn over. We are going to be
about performance, about excellence, about kids for as long as I’m here.
If you don’t want to be a part of that, then you shouldn’t be here. I am
not altering my vision of excellence."
Reporter: Are you concerned that if you push too hard you’ll discourage
or burn out existing teachers and staff who are going to stay on next
year?
Powell: "Yes, I’m concerned about that every day. It’s why I try to
provide them with so many resources. I’m greatly concerned about making
their jobs easier where they can work smarter and not harder. I know
that’s up to me. There is no superintendent in this state that values a
good teacher more than I do. I'm here because of good teachers who
pushed me and held standards of excellence for me. "
Reporter: It has been rumored and stated in some Letters to the Editor
in The Advocate that atmosphere or morale at the high school is
stifling, that there is severe stress on teachers, and some have even
broken down emotionally. Is this atmosphere still present and how or is
this atmosphere affecting students?
Powell: "Again, if you are a teacher negatively affecting students,
bringing the adult world issues in to kids, it’s unprofessional.
Was there unrest and uneasiness at the school, absolutely, but I don’t
apologize. Do you know who has been the most vocal group for change
since I’ve been here? High school kids wanting change. They want change,
they want higher standards, and they want their teachers to teach to
them at least the majority of class time. They didn’t even ask for all
of class time. There is an uncountable number of kids like that.
For a while at the beginning of the year, all I was doing was meeting
with kids. They demanded change. The high school kids here are very,
very special. There can’t be any better high school kids in the state of
Kentucky than what we have here, and I mean that from the bottom of my
heart. They are encouraging me to keep this up.
Is the high school like that now? Absolutely not. Do I still stress them
out? Probably, but I try not to because I try to reward positive
behavior and they are doing a much better job; they are more about kids.
Their principal is in the classrooms. He’s doing a phenomenal job
leading. There are many hidden treasures here (teachers)."
Reporter: What kind of new employee conduct policies have been
established under your leadership? Can I give you some examples-- cell
phones bans, email restrictions?
Powell: "Cell phones—I had simply stated that you should not be talking
on your cell phone while you are teaching. I had given that directive to
principals, one took that literally that I would take your phone away if
I caught you talking on it. A superintendent or principal can’t take
another adult’s phone away. I have never tried to take anyone’s phone
away, ever.
The second one—yes, it is a state law that you can’t send inappropriate
comment from faculty to faculty and you cannot use your employee email
for personal use. People are mad about this. I’ve gotten anonymous
letters about this. The board has gotten anonymous letters about this. I
was motivated to send this email to staff because there was some very
questionable material being sent by email from staff to staff that
crossed very inappropriate boundaries. Nor should you email these things
during instructional time. We all sign an Acceptable Use Policy. And how
many individuals have I written up or spoken to about this? Zero. I sent
one email to all staff about Acceptable Use Policy and personal use.
If a female teacher emails her husband about bringing her lunch? (That's
fine). If you are shopping eBay? Unacceptable. A teacher emails her mom
about picking her kids up after school that day? (That's fine)."
Reporter: One more example? Not being allowed to sit down while students
are in the classroom?
Powell: "Best practices means you are up teaching with your students,
engaged with your students. You have to be actively engaged with your
kids. They still do sit down. Teachers in every classroom sit down every
day. But you can’t type emails all day long and (dictate work from your
desk. In those cases,) kids aren’t learning and you have big discipline
problems. The point was to be engaged. No one has ever gotten in trouble
for (sitting down)."
Reporter: You mentioned that you feel teachers have adequate time in
their planning period, that they are allowed that hour everyday. Are
planning times sometimes overrun by meetings?
Powell: "I think there are some schools that need more planning, but
planning time is about planning your instruction. It’s not about having
a Diet Coke and smoking a cigarette. It’s paid time. Teachers are paid
for their lunch period and planning period. That’s not an hour to run
errands at the bank, store or any other place. And yes, we have team
planning. It’s a meeting where they plan together a unit of study or
something they are doing for their classroom. It’s completely
appropriate.
If teachers utilized every drop of technology and resources we provide
them, (they would have adequate time to plan). I (strive) to decrease
lesson plans. Lesson plans show that teachers are teaching Core Content,
that activities are content-driven."
Reporter: Many in the community just want a forum to discuss how changes
have affected their student. What steps must community members follow to
be heard by the Board of Education?
Powell: "The Board of Education only deals with superintendent
evaluation and policy and procedure. People will not be speaking about
matters that are impromper to discuss at board meetings. The Board of
Education is very committed to excellence and also they are committed to
running professional meetings that are public but not necessarily for
the public. It is not going to be some unorganized, chaotic gripe
session. Although we’ve had a history of that, it’s unprofessional. The
board has expressed that they would like to get to a point (where they
can offer more time for public concerns), but acknowledge we are not
there yet.
The board will not deny anybody their legal right. If they are
interested in getting on the board agenda, they can go through proper
procedures, (a request form) they can access online. They will carry
themselves in a professional manner on matters on the agenda and
specifically under the board’s control. Day-to-day school business is
me. Personnel is me. We have to run this district like a productive
organization, like we are supposed to.
The public wants a well-run, organized board. I was charged with
aggressively changing this community, not by just the board who hired me
but by every community member that I encountered. I am meeting great
resistance (from some of those people). But I also want to thank those
people, at times when I am doing right and others are angry, who have
supported me, not because it’s me, but because they know what I’m doing
is best for kids and they believe in what we are doing."
Reporter: You have stated that you would like to see the district
performing in the top 10 percent of the state in CATS scores this year.
I know every Union County parent and grandparent wants to see their
student reach those goals. What can the community do to help students
get ready for CATS?
Powell: "The community can support excellence. They can make all their
discussions about what’s best for kids educationally. They can
understand and accept the connectedness between the performance of
public schools, economic development, prosperity of a community and
pride. The older generation here continues to inspire me because they
are unparalleled in their pride and belief that Union County is the
best. Although these times are tough, we are going to get there again."
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